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You're talking with:  Paul Oman, MS, MBA -- Member since 1994: NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers), SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings) FORMER SAILING INSTRUCTOR  --  Technical Help - not sales talk!

 

"If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it." -- Margaret Fuller, Journalist


MARINE EPOXY
 

 

THE GREAT MARINE EPOXY

BARRIER COAT RIP-OFF

Fiberglass boat - marine epoxy paint - barrier coat INFO page

epoxy epoxy barrier coat resin

Fiberglass boat owners have come to know that their fiberglass hulls can absorb water and form fluid filled blisters within the hull. A workable solution to preventing or patching such blisters involves coating the hull below the waterline with epoxy. The reason is simple, epoxies bond well to the fiberglass hulls and are much less permeable to water than the polyester resins used to build fiberglass boats.

two part boat resin

 

Great Marine Epoxy Barrier Coat Rip-Off - Underwater Epoxy
Fiberglass boat - marine epoxy paint - barrier coat INFO page

 


Your Host and Tour Guide:

Paul Oman, MS, MBA - Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. (floor epoxies, marine epoxies, underwater epoxies, repair epoxies)

Member: NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers), SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings)

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We've been selling epoxy - marine epoxy (boat building - wood / fiberglass repair) industrial coatings - garage paint -

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Using these same products as DIY bilge coatings CLICK HERE

Visit our page on DIY hull blister repair CLICK HERE


IMPORTANT NOTICE:

Not all hulls are suitable candidates for an epoxy barrier coat. For example, fiberglass hulls that flex a lot will probably have adhesion problems (disbonding) of the hard, brittle epoxy when the hull flexs. Please read the WHAT CAN GO WRONG - HULL COATING DISCLAIMER at the bottom of this page for more information about coating issues on hulls as well as our legal disclaimer. All decisions regarding barrier coats and the results are the sole responsibility of the customer.

Note our CM 15™ epoxy epoxy paint has much more flex than the Water Gard 300™ epoxy paint which is our most common and popular barrier coat epoxy. On hulls with 'flex' (usually light weight performce hulls), CM 15 would be a better selection.Our TA 661™ is an additive that can also increase the flex of an epoxy coating.

A solvent based/thinned epoxy sealer (ESP 155 for example) will also help coatng adhesion, as most epoxy paints essentually only bond to the surface - and surface dirt, sanding/grinding dust, weathering, etc. will affect the bond.


Introduction:

Fiberglass boat owners have come to know that their fiberglass hulls can absorb water and form fluid filled blisters within the hull. A workable solution to preventing or patching such blisters involves coating the hull below the waterline with epoxy. The reason is simple, epoxies bond well to the fiberglass hulls and are much less permeable to water than the polyester resins used to build fiberglass boats.

Current research seems to suggest that blisters form at the glass - gel coat interface where there is a change in density of the fiberglass (polyester resin). The blisters are filled with water and un-reacted polyester resin/hardener chemicals. While these blisters can 'look bad' and often really upset boat owners, but they don't really put the boat at risk. If your personality is 'right', you could just ignore them and keep boating, but most boat owners want them fixed.


Historical notes:

Blisters don't seem to be much of a problem with the early, first fiberglass boats. Why is this? I don't know much about fiberglass (polyester) resins, but I do know epoxy resins. I can tell you what has happened in the epoxy resin market and I assume (without any factual support) the much the same has happened within the polyester resin market. Resin manufacturers have been offering cheaper and cheaper resins (by using cheap additives, cheaper hardeners etc.) to keep their prices low and their margins high. Boat builders buy the cheapest resins to keep their prices low and their margins high. The results is that the worst stuff finds it way into the building of many boats (again, just my humble opinion).

The sad fact is that when I talk with boat builders using epoxy resins (where I am much more knowledgeable), I find they are generally very ignorant about epoxies. Most shop for lowest price. Even those that don't, have no idea how to compare the quality of one epoxy from another. They know only what the ads and labels say (but to their support, unless they are in the resin industry or read our web site, I don't know how they could get educated about epoxy formulations).



Barrier Coat 101


IN A NUTSHELL - YOU ARE TRYING TO GET 10-20 MILS OF EPOXY OVER THE MORE POROUS POLYESTER RESIN HULL TO 'WATERPROOF' AND STOP/REDUCE THE FORMATION OF 'WATER CAUSED' BLISTERS. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN YOU GET LOST IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS AND MARKETING PRESENTED BY US AND OUR COMPETITORS.



1- marine vs coating epoxies

The main differences between 'clear' marine epoxy and a epoxy paint used for barrier coats etc. are: 1) pigments - so you can see what you are doing and for a 'nice' appearance; 2) gelling agents that help reduce sagging and slumping and keep the coating at uniform thickness at both the top and bottom of a vertical surface (note: floor epoxies and marine epoxies are 'self leveling' and do not have these gelling agents).


2- epoxy thickness

Epoxies can be formulated to a wide range of thicknesses (viscosity) - from very thin to putty. Most epoxies will roll on at a max of about 8 mils if you use a roller (the back side of the roller tends to remove (lift off) the extra thickness of epoxy that the front end of the roller puts down. Thus, with most of our epoxies you can brush or paint pad on about 15 mils of epoxy before it will sag, but you can only roll on about 8 mils.

Vendors that sell you thin epoxy that you are required to put on 5 or 6 coats are NOT taking any effort to offer you a user friendly coating. Generally, most experts consider 10-12 mils or more as the correct thickness for a barrier coat.


Note: because these 100% solids (solvent free), high end epoxy paints are all rather thick (especially in cool weather), we've had users report that they transfer the epoxy to the surface they're coating with a wide putty knife or drywall mud float and initially spread it out that way. They return with the roller or brush for final 'smoothing.' They liked this method much better than struggling with a roller only with the thick, sticky epoxy.


3- induction time

Induction time is the time you must wait after mixing the epoxy parts and before you use it. Induction time is needed with 'low grade epoxies' to get the curing reaction started before you spread out the epoxy. Industrial epoxies that still require an induction period are now extremely hard to find. They are years and years out of date and represent the lowest end of epoxy quality (in most cases). As stated above, barrier epoxy paints are not that much different from regular marine epoxies. No epoxy vendor would dare offer a marine epoxy with an induction time, yet when it comes to their 'barrier coat' epoxies induction times are common. I believe they are simply pulling out their epoxy paints from the 1960s and reselling them as today's barrier coat epoxies (I have no facts to prove this!). Anyway, there is something not right here. EXCEPTIONS: speciality coatings and some LOW TEMP epoxies.


4- solvent-based epoxy barrier coatings

Almost all epoxies, both marine epoxies and epoxy paints are solvent free these days = 100% solids = 0% VOC. With solvent free coats, wet thickness equals dry thickness. Buy a gallon of solvent free epoxy and you get a gallon of epoxy. Buy a gallon of solvent based epoxy (lets say 40% VOC) and you get 0.6 gallons of epoxy and 0.4 gallons of solvent that will disappear into the air. Generally you want a solvent free epoxy. However, a SMALL amount of solvent in your epoxy (which you can add yourself) will do the following: 1) thin the epoxy, 2) make it flow off the brush/roller more easily, 3) increase the potlife and working time (especially in hot temps and hot hull surfaces), 4) degrade the physical properties of the epoxy, 5) help the epoxy penetrate into the surface (a good thing), 6) react (perhaps) with underlying coatings (solvent free coating will not soften or blister or bubble any remaining coating that was not removed, but solvents in the new coating may - if this happens, it is a bad thing).

That said - we do offer one solvent based epoxy paint (CM-15). We offer it as a barrier coat for two main reasons - long pot life at high temperatures, and (with this product) lots of 'flex' (for hulls that 'move'). Most epoxies are best applied at temperatures of about 65-75 degrees. Often summer boat yard temperatures are in the 80s and the sun warmed boat hulls are at temperatures of over 90 degrees. For most of the barrier coat epoxies (including ours) that could reduce your pot life (working time) down to 10-15 minutes per mixed batch. You can paint your hull under these conditions, but that's a lot of mixing and a lot of small batches. With the solvent based CM 15 you would still have a pot life of 1 -2 hours even at 90 degrees (the epoxy will work that these temps, but with the hull that hot, the epoxy might 'begin to set' too quickly - leaving a rough texture (solvent thinning will help, but best to wait until cooler temperatures).

Note that our solvent free epoxy barrier coating (Water Gard 300) are thicker than 'normal' paints - especially at temps under 70 F. This surprises some people, but everyone manages. Fix is generally a bit of solvent (but not too much!). The best temp for these solvent free coatings is perhaps 65 to 75 degrees F.  See user notes. THE WATER GUARD 300 IS OUR PRIMARY BARRIER COAT EPOXY.

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5- flexing hulls

As mentioned above, hulls that flex a lot may not be suited for a hard epoxy barrier coat. A more flexible epoxy, like our CM 15, is a possible alternative. We cannot make that decision for you (and have legal disclaimers stating that!).

6- copper powder

We sell copper powder that you can add to epoxy or bottom paint. The value or use of copper as anti fouling agent is open to wide debate. We make no claims one way or another. We simply sell the copper powder. It does make a nice 'copper colored' epoxy paint. If you are going to add it to epoxy (you could add it to regular bottom paint, or some other clear coating for decorative painting). We recommend you use as thin an epoxy as possible to start with (like our Low V or 810 epoxy). The copper gives most pigmented epoxies a pink tint and will work as a thickener in any epoxy. An epoxy containing copper powder would work as a barrier coat too, without regard to any contribution the copper powder might or might not make to the welfare of the boat's bottom.

7 - BEWARE what no one will tell you

It is not that common to have some barrier coat failure (new blisters, disbondment, peeling etc) down the road. All epoxies have similar bonding strength but so much more involved in long lasting adhesion. Even in shipyards with professional sandblasting crews and preparation teams, keep the 'point' on ships is always a struggle. More so on personal boats, especially below the waterline. Often the cause for an area of barrier coat failure is open speculation and cannot be pinned down, but some 'causes' could be; hull flexing, impact, tiny amounts of grease/oil/wax/dust or dirt on the hull prior to coating (rubbing down with solvent usually just spreads it around and doesn't remove it, water inflex from INSIDE the hull, tiny blisters were in place prior to the barrier coat application that has since grown in time, forces of stress due to different areas of hot, cold, direct sun, shade, wet vs dry, all working against each other with every surface involved having different expansion and contraction numbers. The purpose of this #7 warning is simply to prepare you for the possible 'issues' that may happen after you opt for a barrier coat. While true for many people, don't assume that after application your epoxy barrier coat will provide a lifetime of problem free service. Any brushed/rolled on coating is a mechanical bond subject to all sorts of stresses.

THE BEST EPOXIES USUALLY USE CYCLOALIPHATIC CURING AGENTS -
CLICK HERE


See our epoxy paints in our epoxy paint section of our marine catalog CLICK HERE - our most common barrier coat epoxy (for hard, non-flexing hulls is Water Gard 300, Keep in mind that the bottom line is simply a 'waterproofing' coat of epoxy over the polyester resin hull because the polyester resin is somewhat porous and that can cause blisters.



BOTTTOM LINE: Water Gard 300 is a traditional hard, solvent free, 1 or 2 coat barrier system for rigid hulls. It is a extremely high quality epoxy paint.

Order this EPOXY product NOW


However, if your hull flexes than our CM 15 flexible epoxy
CLICK HERE is a better product as it has more 'give' - also a longer pot life - more of a hot weather application epoxy also. It is also softer can contains some solvents. When a hull flexes with a rigid epoxy like the Water Gard the epoxy will crack or even delaminate from the hull.

Order this two part EPOXY Product NOW

from our  large Primary web store


How thick a barrier coat do you need?

revised 2001


The recommended barrier coat thickness numbers seem to be all over the board. The paint inside your house is probably 3 mils thick. Industrial coatings tend to be 10-80 mils thick There is no magic thickness figure. Generally, but not always, thicker is better. Still, most boat owners would rather apply 1 or 2 coats instead of 5-10 coats and there is no reason that I can see why barrier coat vendors cannot thicken their products to reduce the boat owners burden to one or perhaps two coats of epoxy. Such efforts by the epoxy vendors would add to their mixing and formulating costs, reducing profits. Also, considering waste, etc. one is more likely to use more epoxy applying multiple thin coats instead of a single thicker coat.

Ideally, two coats of any coating product is best because it protects against thick and thin spots and pinholes left behind by a single coat. Still, for use as a marine barrier coat, one thick or thin spot, or a few pin-prick voids shouldn't be a problem. The few, if any, benefits from multiple coats probably isn't worth the time and effort involved if you can apply a single coat of a quality, carefully vendor thickened epoxy. That epoxy should be solvent-free, not require haz-mat shipping, have no induction time, not require mica porosity inhibitors, not blush, and go on in a single coat. Is this too much to ask for the dollars being spent? I don't think so. Thick epoxies tend not to want to come off the roller and stick to a semi-smooth hull. The result is a thinner 6-8 mil surface application from a product that could easily go on at 16 mils if the surface were rough or the application by brush. 16 mils will cover 100 square feet per gallon, 8 mils will cover 200 square feet per gallon.


Note: thick coats of epoxy can sag as they take don't 'shrink' as they cure and they take hours to set up and gel. Gavity can make it drip and sag.

Conclusions:

Knowing something about how to evaluate good quality epoxies from average or poor quality epoxies is important when price alone is not a suitable yardstick. With many marine barrier coat epoxies the sad fact is that you don't get what you pay for. An educated end-user is our strategy for improving the quality of not just barrier coat epoxies, but all marine epoxies.



How much epoxy do you need? (revised 3/23/03)

Rolled on, most epoxies will give you about 8 mils - that's about 130 square feet per gallon (use a short nap epoxy roller - we sell them!). By brush or paint pad you can get about 12-16 mils (100 square feet per gallon). Aim for 10-12 mils for most boats. Note: if I had no blister problem, I would just roll on a single coat (about 8 mils) and stop at that. We find that the formula of boat length times beam times 0.85 does a really good job of estimating square footage below the water line. Remember to double that amount for 2 coats and triple for 3 coats.

Note that our different epoxies come in different package size (and different epoxy color). Deciding which one to use (besides the technical comparison link below) may well come down to color and/or unit size. Depending upon the epoxy, packaging could be 1.5 gallon, 2 gallon, or 3 gallon units and color selection (depending upon product - each product only available in one color): light gray, med gray, white, powder blue, beige. Some people like to use multiple coats of different colors. This way you can see thick or thin spots, and determine the depth of chips/dings by the color of the epoxy exposed. To do this you would need to use different products for each color, or attempt to slightly change the tint of a single product using a third party tinting agent.


Should you use a primer under your epoxy barrier coat?

. More on primers - visit our primer page.


SPECIAL NOTE: solvent free epoxies (0% VOC) are generally considered to be self primering, (no primers needed). However, without solvents, there bond is strictly a surface event so dust, weathering, very dry surfaces (such as repaint putties) etc. can provide a less than perfect surface for them to bond with. A solvent based epoxy primer, with the solvents penetrating the surface a little bit, can provide a better, well bonded, fresh, epoxy surface for a solvent free epoxy to adhere to (or you can apply a primer coat of the barrier coat epoxy thinned with solvent - say 10-20%0).

Progressive Epoxy Polymers offers ESP 155™ low solvent penetrating clear epoxy primer.

Contact Page /Link to Storefront/Ordering

 


Subject: Barrier Coat Application
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:41:16 -0500

Hi there,

I came across your web site as I was researching barrier coating the bottom of my new boat... I expect I should apply a barrier coat... Using your formula (L x Beam x 0.85) I have about 166 square ft of below the waterline surface area. Can you recommend an epoxy, brushes, rollers, thinners etc? I would need to do the job?

Hi Jeff

I think I would purchase a 3 gal kit of our white or blue Watergard 300. one coat is fine, but you will have a lot left over, so might put a stripe coat on leading edge of keel, rudder, etc. then one coat over everything (thus giving two coats on the wear areas). Also consider for the bilge, battery box, chain locker, etc. Another common practice is to alternate coating colors (i.e. blue against a white fiberglass hull, white epoxy on top of blue epoxy, etc. so that you can tell how deep scratches, chips or sanding results have progressed by the 'color coating').

Use our short nap epoxy roller or a paint pad (everyone likes the Rubbermade brand of paint pads sold a Walmart) - bit more control with the paint pad. For clean-up or thinning (if going on too goopy due to low air or surface temp) use MEK or xylene. If you use a 'regular' paint roller, the sticky epoxy sometimes pulls the lint out of a new roller, leaving a fuzzy surface on your hull.

Generally you don't 'officially' need to sand before the bottom paint if applied within a few days (epoxies continue to cure for about a week) but I like to suggest 'scratching up' the surface with coarse sandpaper any - say 30 minutes per side - to break up the glossy, slick surface of these epoxies.

We sometimes suggest a primer under the barrier coat, generally if the fiberglass is old, very dusty, etc. The barrier coat epoxies are solvent free, so all bonding is a surface thing only. If the surface is less than 100%, their could be bond problems. Using our CM 15, solvent based epoxy (20% solvent - very long pot life) will help the bond because the CM 15 will, being thin and containing solvents, penetrate/seal the surface to some degree and provide an ideal fresh epoxy surface for the epoxy barrier coat to bond with. Note that you could use several coats of the CM 15 as your barrier coat too (it's thin, so probably 3, maybe 4 coats). Being thin, it will probably go on with a regular roller instead of an epoxy roller. The CM 15 color is ivory. It has a very long potlife and is probably the epoxy to use in temps over 85 or so degrees F.

If applying a barrier coat in temps below about 60 or 65 degrees F, consider our using our green Cold Coat epoxy.
Regards - Paul

note: find these epoxies on our
epoxy paint page


Paul (4/2014):

Over the course of the last three days, I applied the black and then the ivory CM-15 epoxy paint to my fiberglass sailboat. It applied beautifully. The temperature ranged from 70 - 75 degrees and the humidity was in the 40-50% range most of the time. The last coat went on last evening about 6:30 pm with humidity creeping up a bit, due to an impending rain storm. Sanding at 24 hours was almost o.k.....not very much clogging, but some. I waited until 36 hours and it sands without any clogging.

DETAILS: 23' Sonar sailboat; best I could measure, about 140 sf to paint.

Mixed 1/2 of each gallon kit plus some solvent (2 oz) for each coat. Two coats of black, followed by two coats of ivory...all coats applied within 8-12 hours of each other.

Applied using your 9" close nap roller covers. Each coat took about 45 minutes to apply. Mixed......applied paint. No pot life issues and each half batch covered well with about 1/2 cup remaining after coverage. The last coat of ivory, I tried to apply more heavily and used all the paint, just as I finished. 

The surface is why I would call a mild orange peel texture...not glass smooth. As soon as I can sand, I intend to use a longboard with 120 grit to knock the high points down.

Thanks for a great product. Mark -from MO


Visit our page on hull blister repair CLICK HERE

 

 

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Call (603-435-7199) or EMAIL me about what you're doing. We try to earn your business one phone call at a time!

 


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This current page is all about:

MARINE EPOXY
 

Great Marine Epoxy Barrier Coat Rip-Off - Underwater Epoxy
Fiberglass boat - marine epoxy paint - barrier coat INFO page


USER FEEDBACK:

More user comments on this product at: www.epoxyproducts.com/usernotes.html


Hi Paul
I think we have some converts.. We barrier coated the bottom of my boat
and the guys loved your epoxy XXXX.They could not believe how easy it went
on and how fast it built up.. they also mentioned they liked the colors
blue and white.. They commented on how nice it was to have contrasting
colors to see where they left off from coat to coat... I think u will
start getting orders out of Daytona Beach very soon... i have been
using your epoxy myself and find it is very easy to work with... I'm
glad i took the chance on you. Your epoxy does everything you said it
would..

Thanks Mike D.



Subject: Great barrier coat success!
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 10:58:06 -0500

Just a quick note to let you know about the great results I got from the XXX epoxy. I just got
back in the water with my Sirius 28 "Eleuthera" and I'm extremely pleased with the performance
and ease of application. Thanks again for a great product. I highly recommend it as the premiere
barrier coat!
Captain D.R.V.


Joe wrote: Hi Paul:


I just finished coating my 1983 41' Chris Craft and wanted to give you some feedback... I had the gelcoat planed off not as much because of blisters (Only about 45 in almost 500 sq.ft.) but because the hull had 1/4 - 1/3 inch of old, rotten antifouling and because parasites had eaten away the gelcoat at the waterline.

I used your blister repair kit with ease and both the penetrating resin and the filler worked very much to specs.

I was a bit unprepared for how thick (100% solids...) the Water Gard 300 epoxy paint is but still tried to use a 7" paint pad to spread it. The temperature ranged from about 60º when I started at 8:00 to 74º when I finished around 2:00 pm. and the pad worked well at first but it started to disintegrate after just a few strokes (vendor comment: pad was a foamed backed one from Home Depot. Users report the Rubbermaid paint pads from Walmart work well) , so I switched to one of your phenolic rollers.

I had the (wrong) feeling that I wasn't putting on a thick enough coat so I think I overloaded it a bit and while the horizontal (or almost) surfaces levelled off well, the more vertical surfaces at the bow "cadscaded " (run) a little. When finished I had applied 16 qts. to a theoretical 489 sq.ft. for an average 13 mils coat, well within the norm. Since I did it all by myself (dumb!), I was so tired that did not notice the runs until the following day when the stuff was rock hard... Overall my comments are that your products do exactly if not more than you say and I will strongly recommend them to other sailors with the tip that rolling this stuff takes muscles and is easier if you borrow some!

As to pot life I mixed about 3 pints at a time and applied it in about 20 minutes with no problem. I kept refilling the roller tray also with no problem for about three hours and then I had to throw one away because it got very thick even though I never got to the 40-45 minutes pot life for the 70º range for each batch.


Once again, thanks for your good products... and advice!
Regards
Joe - Calistoga, CA

(More vendor comments: You can add a bit of solvent to the epoxy (say 5% by volume) - will make the
epoxy thinner and also help it slide off the roller or brush a bit nicer too. Being
thinner it is more likely to 'run' like ordinary paint, rather than slowly sag
like thick dense epoxy can do. As the temps warmed up (and as the epoxy started
to kick and produced its own heat) the warmer temps probably thinned the epoxy a
bit letting it begin to sag.)


Jonathan wrote:
> Paul,

I did 1 side - fine. The second side has tiny bubbles scattered about (the size of a very small pea). They pop when I push on them. What's that from and what's required prior to the second coat? Also, how long to wait before bottom paint?

> Thanks, Jon


They are coming from out of the hull. As the hull/day warms up the tiny air pockets expand and that air gets trapped in the not yet hard epoxy...

Second coat will not have same problem. You can just go over the popped bubbles or mix up a small amount of the CM 15 with thickener (we have but in your case you could quickly get some talc powder at the drugstore and use that) to 'putty' fill the bubble voids.

Bottom paint in 1-3 days is best but could wait years too!

paul


Dear Paul and all at Progressive Epoxy (2/229)

Two years ago, I used your products to repair a cosmetically blistered sailboat. As mentioned, the damage was not structural, but was evenly distributed below the waterline. The boat is a Schock 23-2 and was in Lake Chelan, WA for most of its life (1989 - 2003). I gouged all the blisters and treated the larger ones with Wet/Dry 700 and then had the boatyard roll several coats of Low V as a barrier coat. Having helped a friend apply an 8 layer West System barrier coat in extremely good conditions only to have the hull re-blister in 2 years, needless to say, I was skeptical as to whether the effort was worthwhile. The boatyard that applied my barrier coat with your products tried to talk me out of the work stating that "barrier coats don't work".

Last week, I hauled the boat after two years in saltwater. The bottom was as fair as the day I put her back in the water with your epoxies. I will keep an eye on her, but I am extremely thrilled with the results to date. Thanks for truly great products.

A question: What is the shelf life of your epoxies in a cool climate (Pacific Northwest) stored in a garage?

Again, thanks for the great products; I will definitely pass my success story on to others.


Andrew

Contact Page /Link to Storefront/Ordering

 



UPDATE 9/15/02

WE RECENTLY TESTED THOSE 'PAINT PADS' AVAILABLE AT ALL PAINT STORES. THEY ARE OFTEN USED TO PAINT AROUND EDGES ETC. BUT CAN ALSO BE USED ON LARGE SURFACES VERY SUCCESSFULLY. THE PADS HAVE A SHORT LINTLESS NAP AND SINCE THE GLIDE ALONG THE SURFACE INSTEAD OF ROLL, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY 'REAR-END ROLLER PICKUP' AND THEY HOLD A LOT MORE PRODUCT THAN A BRUSH.

IN OUR TESTS WE FOUND WE COULD EASILY PUT DOWN A SINGLE THICK COAT OF EPOXY RATHER THAN THE THIN, BUMPY LAYER MOST ROLLERS PUT DOWN. WHEN IT COMES TO EPOXIES THESE PADS SEEM TO HAVE THE BEST OF BRUSHING (I.E. THICK COAT) PLUS LOTS OF THE ADVANTAGES OF A ROLLER.

IT IS TOO EARLY TO MAKE A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION, BUT WE URGE YOU TO TRY THESE PADS AND REPORT BACK TO US. THEY WOULD/SHOULD/COULD BE IDEAL FOR THE APPLICATION OF A MARINE BARRIER COAT ON A BOAT HULL, FOR EXAMPLE.

 

Epoxy "Stab Brush" --  "Regular Brush"

Use with products on this page

buy separately or include with your order

epoxy paint brush

STAB BRUSH - 3 inch wide with 3/4 inch bristles. Most epoxies are too thick for a regular brush. Stab brushes allow you to push and move the epoxy around and 'stab' or poke it into cracks, voids, and corners

REGULAR BRUSH - 2 inch wide and extra thick with synthetic bristles. Use with varnish, paints and thin epoxies. Priced for disposable use.

Find Stab Brushes and Regular Brushes in our MARINE CATALOG or in our HOME/COMMERCIAL CATALOG

Goto our 3rd party storefront and purchase in the MISC SECTION

 


Jack C. writes (5/2010):

Paul, Last weekend we applied the waterguard 300 to our 39' O'Day. I have the following feedback and questions.

1. We tried paint pads. The first set were unsuitable as the pad attachment was not strong enough to resist the application force. We got pads from 7" Walmart that did not have the same problem. Even with careful application, it was very difficult to get an even finish. We used a paint thickness gauge to get 12 mils. Your recommendation of measuring the
area and comparing the epoxy used is not effective. The gauge worked well.

(VENDOR COMMENTS: We sell plastic film thickness gauges - $4.50 - www.epoxyproducts.com/8_misc.html in our marine catalog, www.epoxyproducts.com/i_misc.html in our industrial catalog --- see MISC PRODUCTS section in our 3rd party storefront -- www.epoxyproducts.com/contact.html . In cold weather epoxy gets thicker. We had a customer transfer the cold thickened epoxy to the gull with a putty knive/float and then spread with a paint pad).

The pad seems to drag. We eventually used foam rollers (the rollers we used were 1/8" foam so 3/16" will probably work too) and got to 8 + mils with an even finish for the rest of the boat. The roller leaves a nice texture and is much much much easier. We found the paint gauge invaluable in learning how much pressure to apply. 8 + mils was easy to do. We had no
blisters so we went with one coat With our rolled on experience we had no drips or sags. Where the foam joins on the roller leaves a line in the epoxy when using the rollers we found at Ocean State Joblot. Rollers are definitely easier than pads. I would not recommend pads.

2. The pot life information is a little misleading as it applies to 6oz and is not linear. For hull and air temperatures of upper 60's and lower 70's using a large mixing pot we found that 4oz hardener and 8oz resin gave about 20 minutes which was just enough for application. Also, although we agree with "keeping the pot topped up", we don't recommend using the
mixing bucket for more than two loads as remnants from previous loads will reduce pot time. (VENDOR COMMENT: Think customer is mistaken here).We found a cage mixer with a 1/2" drill worked well for mixing. We noticed the decrease in pot life after a 8oz +16 oz batch and this may have been the problem. I really recommend keeping the batch size to max 12 oz. There is obviously more waste with more batches but its ugly when it starts to set.

3. Applying bottom paint while the epoxy shows a fingerprint when touched. We carefully monitored the epoxy setting and applied bottom paint when we could see an imprint yet the epoxy was dry. This was for an area of 8 sq ft. As we agree with your philosophy of minimum VOC's and pro-environment, we have been using water based Hydrocoat (tm) bottom paint from Pettit for 4 years. We applied a coat as suggested and as the paint dried, got a rather shocking result. The paint dried with random shaped small 3/8' x 3/8" approx. areas separated by lines showing the epoxy. The lines are about 1/16". We recoated with Hydrocoat and some small areas got covered, most retained the "cracks". After 12 hours another coat the cracks. Leaving the epoxy to cure for about 18 hours was fine. Hydrocoat went on with no problem, no cracks. My thoughts are that the suggestion to add the bottom paint at this
stage may ONLY to non water based bottom coats.


(VENDER COMMENTS: Yes, I have seen similar 'cracks' when water based coatings applied over 'fresh' epoxy. Suspect you are the first person to use a waterbased bottom paint or a waterbased bottom paint so soon after applying the epoxy. Solvent based coatings, or more coats of epoxy, certainly can (and are recommended) to be applied sooner. As a rule of
thumb I often suggest to wait 24 hours when applying a similar product and 48 hours when a 'major shift' in product type of coating over epoxy. Most DIY'ers end up working weekend to weekend, with a week between coats. I tested applying wet latex paint over wet water gard epoxy with no problem. Customer later applied his water based bottom paint over "5 minute epoxy repair" resin after a wait of several hours and got similar 'cracks' suggesting issue is tied to the bottom paint.)

4. The epoxy paint is extremely high gloss. We tried patches of Hydrocoat on sanded and unsanded areas of epoxy that had been left for 12+ hours. On unsanded areas the adhesion is poor. We sanded the 350 sq ft hull with 80 grit which took the top off but certainly did not create a frosty overall surface. This took about 5 hours. Certainly not 30 minutes per side. To
get all the shiny spots off would have taken 15 hours plus removed a lot of the epoxy. Hopefully there is enough tooth for the paint to adhere.

(VENDOR COMMENT: Again, largely related to using a waterbased product over the slick epoxy - like painting glass with latex paint) For next time or if the bottom paint does not adhere, what do you suggest that would work to get paint to adhere to the epoxy without sanding. A epoxy primer? Liquid sandpaper?

(VENDOR COMMENTS: I have found that Liquid Sandpaper doesn't work on epoxy. Epoxy primer is just solvent thinned epoxy - same gloss only thinner. Most of my many home built kayaks etc. are latex paint over un-sanded epoxy. Takes 2-3 coats to hide the brushmarks (like latex paint on a sheet of glass) - but never an adhesion problem and never a regret that I didn't use a solvent based enamel over the epoxy for better adhesion etc. )


CLICK HERE TO GOTO OUR USERNOTES SECTION: FEEDBACK FROM FOLKS WHO HAVE USED THIS (WATERGARD 330) AND OUR OTHER EPOXIES. INCLUDES PICTURES AND HOW TO NOTES FROM CUSTOMER USING IT AS A BILGE COATING, AS WELL AS FEEDBACK FROM OTHER CUSTOMERS USING THIS PRODUCT.


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BOAT HULL DISCLAIMER

In addition to the other disclaimers listed at
www.epoxyproducts.com/legal.html, there is a special disclaimer for purchase, preparation, application and use of Products from Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. used on boat hulls and related structures.

SURFACE PREPARATION/CONTAMINATION: Hull surfaces can be contaminated by such things as previous application of release agents, waxes, polishes and oils. Dust, dirt, water and oils can be a common airborne contaminants in boat work sites. Extensive sanding and blasting of hulls can ground sanding dust and other materials into the hull surface such that a simple washing or wipe down will not remove them. All these factors can have an adverse affect on coating adhesion.

EPOXIES: By their nature, epoxies are hard and rigid. While some hulls are also very stiff and rigid others including (but not limited to) modern, light thin hulls, tend to flex, distort and bend. In addition to structural causes (hull thickness and weight) hull flexing can be caused by (but not limited to): rough weather/seas; mast/rigging tension; boat trailers and cradles; hoist and travel lift slings and harnesses; collisions; groundings and previous hull repairs. Even long term vibrations can have an affect. When a hull flexes, either rapidly or slowly, hard coatings may respond by cracking, delaminating or disbonding.

URETHANES: One and two part urethanes/polyurethanes require outstanding surface preparation (and usually a suitable primer) for adequate adhesion.

METAL HULLS: Adhesion and coating failures on metal hulls (and even fiberglass/resin hulls) can sometimes be linked to ‘soluble salt contamination' (see
www.epoxyproducts.com/salt.html). Aluminum hulls often flex a great deal and because exposed aluminum quickly forms an oxide layer, they can be difficult to coat and achieve adequate adhesion.

CEMENT HULLS: Moisture from both sides of the hull and from inside the hull can affect coating adhesion. So can a weak, poorly consolidated surface, as well as the ‘soluble salts' referenced above.

WOOD HULLS: Wood is unique because it expands or contracts based upon moisture. Other materials, including coatings and epoxies expand or contract based upon temperature. Thus, wood and the coatings upon it move differently from each other.

Because of the above issues the decision to apply, what to apply, and how to apply any sort of coating to a boat hull is the sole responsibility of the Customer. Any suggestions; recommendations or procedures for surface preparation, selection and application of Products is given AS-IS without any warranty and is not binding to Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. In no event shall Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. be liable to you for Product costs, shipping costs, preparation/application/removal costs, or CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL damages.




Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. shall not be liable for any injury, loss, damage, direct or consequential damages arising out of the use of its products. The purchaser/applicator shall determine the suitability of the products for the intended use. The products are applied by others and Progressive Epoxy Polymers does not provide any warranties, whatsoever arising in connection with the use of these products.

APPLICATION/SUITABILITY DISCLAIMER. Any suggestions/procedures offered by Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. are given AS-IS without any warranty and in no way expand the rights under which you have, or will purchase, this product or related products. Your use of any of these suggestions/procedures is at your sole cost and risk. In no event shall Seller be liable to you for CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL damages. You must make an independent determination whether to follow any or all of the above items based upon the numerous application variables at hand. Consult Seller Warranty Disclaimer and Return Policy document for additional notifications.


TEMPERATURE AND CHEMICAL RESISTANCE DISCLAIMER. The temperature ranges and/or chemical resistance or pot life information outlined above is based upon information provided by the raw material vendor or product formulator, or private tests. It is provided AS-IS without any warranty and in no way expand the rights under which you have, or will purchase, this product or related products. Chemical resistance can vary depending upon, but not limited to, such factors as evaporation, temperature, humidity/moisture, surface preparation, interaction with other chemicals, oxygen levels, and evaporation. Temperature effects on coatings can vary based upon solar heating/coating color, ventilation, duration of frequency of heating cycle, immersion or moisture levels and fluid flow. Pot life is affected by temperature, volume of epoxy mixed and shape of the container. Your use of these epoxies under these conditions is at your sole cost and risk. In no event shall Seller be liable to you for temperature or chemically caused coating failure or CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL damages. You must make an independent determination confirming the coating's resistance to the chemicals and temperatures present in your unique situation.


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