EPOXY BAR TOP TABLE TOP QUESTIONS? - NEED INFO? - WANT TO TALK? - NEED TO MAKE AN ORDER??

Call 603-435-7199 (east coast) ANYTIME. No two bar / table tops are the same. Issues like sealing the surface, how thick to pour, how much epoxy is needed, and dealing with  bubbles are critical items. 

 

FOUR KINDS OF EPOXY FINISHES/OPTIONS

1) 1/4 PLUS WITH EDGE (MOST PROFESSIONAL)

2) THIN EPOXY DRIPPING OVER THE EDGE

3)THICKISH EPOXY FOR CRAFT PROJECTS

4) EPOXY SEALER WITH MULTI COATS OF india spar varnish  USE THIS METHOD FOR OUTDOOR APPLICATIONS

CALL ---- EMAIL ---  BUY: goto store  ----   EPOXY GURU - "how to" epoxy/coating help.


PROGRESSIVE EPOXY POLYMERS, INC.

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 Progressive Epoxy Polymers Inc., Floor Coatings  EpoxyPolyurethane, Pittsfield, NH

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Your Host:  Paul Oman, MS, MBA Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. - Pittsfield, NH - Selling epoxies since 1994

Member: NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers), SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings)


INTRODUCTION

 

Absolutely the  Best Pourable Two Part Clear Epoxy Resin Systems / Options

 

THIS PAGE EXPLAINS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT EPOXIES - OPTIONS, ISSUES, WHAT CAN GO WRONG ETC. AFTER READING THIS PAGE  SELECT YOUR OPTION AND VISIT THOSE LINKED PAGES

 

OPTION 1 --  Thick pour epoxy - use for pours over 1/4 inch and with a leak-proof edge all around the project. The most professional, commercial grade bar top and table top system/method available --- GOTO OPTION 1 - Bio Clear 810 - the most non yellowing epoxy available. Most professional method/results - Most expensive.

"Love the product (Bio Clear 810) these past six years I've been using it."

John R. - Custom Furniture Creations (8/15) find on Facebook

Bio Clear 810 (tm)- Table top epoxy for Professionals

 

 

 

OPTION 2 -- Pour a thin epoxy over your surface and let it drip over the side (or brush on semi - thick coats of epoxy) use EPOXY CLEAR TOP RESIN --- GOTO OPTION 2 NOTE: THIS 'CLEAR' EPOXY HAS AN AMBER PART A IN THE CAN - CLEAR WHEN POURED OR BRUSHED. Often used for DIY home craft projects

 

OPTION 3 ---  special craft projects use a thicker marine type epoxy (which has more bubbles)  -   examples at Maine Coast Creations web site. - Often used to fill cracks and knot holes in wood bar slabs etc. use BASIC NO BLUSH EPOXY - buy at epoxyusa.com USE TO FILL KNOT HOLES ETC. IN SLABS OF WOOD/BAR TOPS

 

OPTION 4 --  Brush on a solvent thinned epoxy epoxy sealer and primer (use ESP 155) , then top coat with several coats of INDIA SPAR VARNISH.  Note; these two products cannot be sold in California. - Least expensive and best for outdoors. Can polish and wax spar varnish to a mirror finish. GOTO OPTION 4

Option 4 - best option for outdoors

 

Minwax (tm) oil stain - left to dry for 2 weeks - 2 coats ESP 155 epoxy sealer and primer - 4 coats of India Spar Varnish (note ESP 155 and Varnish not for sale in California)


"You provide outstanding products, and Fantastic Support. Thank You." Brian S.

"Thanks for all your advice, tips & moral support concerning my project. It turned out beautiful. Quality people backing a quality product is the only way to go!" Joe

" PURCHASED SOME EPOXY FROM YOU 5 PLUS YEARS AGO IT WORKED GREAT.

YOU ARE THE ONLY FOLKS TALKING THE CORRECT INFORMATION.

MANY FINE THANKS " - Kerry 7/15


EPOXY TABLE AND BAR TOP RESINS - YOUR OPTIONS AND ISSUES

(how this site is organized)

 

Section 1 - Pick your table top - bar top epoxy vendor carefully (find one that works with you 24/7)

 

Section 2 - Epoxies yellow - some more than others - lets talk about it instead of hiding this fact

 

Section 3 - First Things First - the math

 

Section 4 - First Things First - epoxy resins

 

Section 5 - User Notes  - real life pros and cons - issue you should know about - PRIMING/SEALING THE SUBSURFACE

 

Section 6 - What can go wrong You will not find this section at any of our competitor's sites

   Progressive Epoxy Polymers Inc., Floor Coatings  EpoxyPolyurethane, Pittsfield, NH

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Always find/confirm Better Bus. Bureau accreditation when buying online. If they have it, they would show it!

member (Paul Oman MS MBA)

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member (Paul Oman MS MBA)

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Don't be fooled by slick and flashy websites designed by marketing firms and web designers

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EMAIL OR CALL 603 435 7199  - ORDER ONLINE


Section 1 - Pick your table top bar top epoxy vendor carefully

 

VENDOR - PRODUCT WARNINGS / BUYER BEWARE

Since we started selling bar top and table top epoxies to homeowners and contractors years ago, other epoxy sellers have jumped on the bandwagon offering less than ideal epoxies at low prices. There are things you need to consider:

 

* Many/most of the low cost epoxy vendors don't formulate their products at all. Instead they purchase in bulk the raw resins and curing agents manufactured by the few giant chemical companies that make them.  The better vendors use these 'raw materials' purchased by the low end vendors (and everyone else) as the starting point for their epoxies, and formulate the products for improved features. It is sort of like the difference between alcohol and Jack Daniels.  using a barrel of oil from an oil rig in your car instead of using the formulated/refined version called gasoline. Usually the only clue you have is a 'dirt cheap' price.

Epoxies aren't cheap. Good, formulated epoxies cost between about $70 per gallon to about $80 per gallon. Special epoxies can cost hundreds of dollars a gallon. Generally, vendors that sell through distributors have to charge more because the distributors get a 40%-60% discount on list price and the manufacturer still has to make a profit.

 

* Customer support is also a key issue for contractors and first time homeowners (DIY folks!). First time users often need a lot of hand holding and support, before and after the sale. To evaluate your potential supplier for 'support' we suggest you email and/or call them with questions, etc. so that you can see if they will be there for you when you are considering the purchase, when you purchase, when you do your pour and after the pour if you have any issues.

 


* RED FLAG #1  DON'T BUY FROM A MARKETING COMPANY - REPEAT - DON'T BUY FROM A MARKETING COMPANY!!

You buy cars from an automobile company, computers from a computer company, and lumber from a lumber company. You don't buy industrial chemicals (i.e. epoxies) from a marketing company. You buy epoxies from a chemical/epoxy source. Marketing companies sell $3 sunglasses, plastic containers made in China, weight loss pills, and pet rocks. Epoxies are chemicals - deal only with professionals.

Clues that you are dealing with a marketing company and not an epoxy company:

1) A really slick web site but no technical, chemical, or scientific words or jargon.

2) Marketing companies have Live Chat lines (how many small - medium sized manufacturing, technology, or scientific companies have employees just sitting at desks waiting for you to contact them?).

3) A focus on pricing. Marketing is about making money (getting your money) and not about the product being sold.

4) marketing companies try to sell you 'extra' high profit (to them) items.

 

"Hello,

I bought a few gallons of XXXXXXX bar top epoxy from another web site. I was planning to coat a (hardwood-veneer plywood) kitchen counter-top (stained with Minwax water-based gel stain).

I read the instructions, but also called to ask about something else (stir/pour time for 1 person with 4 gallons or more). Because I didn’t have time yet to do the coating, I was worried about kitchen-activity grease or other spots getting on the counter before it was sealed so I called the vendor.

That vendor’s web site has a lot of problems with chat windows that don’t work, etc. and when I commented on these 2 aspects of the service, the manager declined to give me any advice about the product, telling me I had not read the instructions. It HAD been a few months, so I re-read them and asked again.

He never responded, apparently not feeling any obligation, even if it meant I couldn’t confidently use the 6 gallons I purchased—a few hundred dollars’ worth! And no, I wasn’t abusive, nor anything but a little testy after learning I’d been misinformed.

So in hopes you can give general guidance, knowing I wish I had started with your site instead, and will do so in future (since theirs isn’t returnable):

Thank You"

note: our epoxy is returnable with a 25% restock fee (shipping not included)

Horror Stories Using Competitors'  Budget Epoxies

BACKGROUND: There are two types of epoxy vendors. The 'serious' professional grade epoxies  are formulated by beginning with  the raw resins manufactured by the giant chemical companies. Call these companies EPOXY FORMULATORS.  Generally the low price epoxy vendors merely repackage these raw bulk resins. Not a good thing!  Call these companies EPOXY REPACKAGERS. It is the difference between Moonshine and Jack Daniels. Use only FORMULATED SPECIAL PURPOSE EPOXIES LIKE THOSE SOLD IN THIS WEB SITE. Going cheap can have very $$$ consequences. See Below:

EXAMPLE 1:  A commercial epoxy pour contractor recently used our Bio Clear 810 pour on  epoxy to replace a badly yellowed epoxy covered logo in the INSIDE  floor of regional airport terminal with our 'almost no yellowing' Bio Clear 810 (cyclo-aliphatic epoxies to the rescue!) We don't know for certain that the original contractor used some inexpensive REPACKAGER'S epoxy, but it certainly sounds like it.

EXAMPLE 2: I recently got a phone call from someone using epoxy to seal wooden tables they were selling. They were using 'cheap' epoxy from a  REPACKAGER (uxcoxxxxxxxs). After six months the epoxy on the tables all exhibited millions of tiny cracks (like shattered safety glass). This wouldn't have happened with a specially formulated epoxy designed to overcome the 'flaws' of the raw resins. Bad news for them.

EXAMPLE 3: Another phone caller told me how they had ordered over a hundred gallons of epoxy in two separate orders from a low cost REPACKAGER (bxxxbxxxxxxxxxy). The first batch worked fine but the second batch failed completely. The vendor knew it was their fault (bad batch? wrong barrel to jug pour out?) and refunded their money. But that didn't undo the damage done.

RED FLAG #2

Mis-information (wrong stuff)

Some epoxy sites are posting wrong information.

1) Epoxies take a week or more for full cure. They often can be used in 3 or 4 days but they continue to cure for a week or so. Epoxy pros all know this.

2) To pop bubbles in a liquid epoxy you heat the air above the epoxy with a torch etc. You run the torch/heat parallel  to the surface. This warms and expands the air above the bubble and the bubble pops due to the lower air pressure.  You DO NOT point the open flame/extreme heat at any chemical that will burn, including epoxy. You could also "bake or cook" the area where the heat is applied. Ask any high school chemistry teacher or lab technician. Science folks know this, marketing types not so much.

3) Like most coatings, epoxies will not stick to greasy or oil covered surfaces. One marketing company states that epoxy will not bond over oil based paints! Oil based paints are actually regular enamel paints sold at hardware stores that use long chain solvents (not really oils). Any handyman or craft person knows there is no oil film on enamel painted surfaces. As  you would expect, epoxies stick fine over enamels, latex and poly paints. Any paint professional knows this, marketing types not so much.


RED FLAG #3

No weekend or evening support. That is the time most DIY folks are doing epoxy pours. They work during the day! Any company that you cannot reach on a Friday night or Sunday Morning is looking our for their bottom line, not yours.


RED FLAG #4

Overlooked information. These issues should be clearly mentioned and explained:

1) Epoxy yellowing in UV light

2) What happens if poured too thick - big heat kick and uneven surface

3) What happens if you do a poor job mixing (you get sticky spots that never get hard - fix = more epoxy on top)

4) Epoxy scratch relatively easily (treat with care)

5) Epoxies soften at about 160 degrees. Place a hot object on the epoxy and it will leave a permanent dent in the epoxy

 


Section 2 - Epoxies yellow

 

* All epoxies yellow in sunlight and even over time. UV protection cannot be added to epoxies, but can be added to other kinds of clear coatings that can go over the epoxy. We are very up-front about epoxy yellowing. If your other epoxy vendor doesn't mention it, they are not being completely open and honest with you.  Some even claim to have non yellowing epoxy. This is not chemically possible.

ALL EPOXIES YELLOW IN

UV AND OVER TIME

epoxy yellowing

FIVE DIFFERENT EPOXIES ALL SHOWING

YELLOWING AFTER A FEW WEEKS OUTDOORS.

WHITE PLATE FOR REFERENCE

(WE SHOW YOU THE UGLY YELLOW TRUTH)

 

The truth is that some epoxies yellow faster than others but they all do. It is the nature of epoxies. They are probably claiming the slow to yellow epoxies are 'non yellowing' - acceptable in many marketing based companies.  UV blockers and absorbers cannot be added to thermoset resin systems (like epoxy) or the epoxy will not 'cross link' correctly. Don't believe claims to the contrary. If that 'magical' additive existed, it would revolutionize the epoxy coating industry (used on ships, boats, pits, storage tanks etc.) and become quickly accepted and used by every epoxy manufacturer (like the invention of the automatic transmission in the auto industry). And if it did exist it would come from some large chemical company that makes all the raw epoxy resins and curing agents and not some internet epoxy sales site. Finally, if there was such an additive or curing agent, it would certainly be introduced and marketed in much much larger epoxy niches than just bar tops and table tops.    

Stopping UV damage and UV yellowing  ----------------    Josie Lewis (6/2010) wrote:

Hi Paul: I recently purchased some clear epoxy  and Acrylic Poly UV Plus from your company. I have access to a UV chamber which simulates high altitude direct UV exposure. I thought you might be interested in my findings. I used a Masonite panel painted white and then coated with the epoxy. On half of the epoxy coated panel, I brushed on one coat of UV Poly and put it in the chamber for 644 hours at 50 C (the heat accelerates the exposure). Attached is a picture of the results. The masonite cracked a bit and separated due to a bit of wetness in the wood (unrelated to the resin). The epoxy  ambered dramatically within about 50 hours. After 644 hours, the UV Poly showed a slight bit of ambering from the original control but it is marginal at worst. The technician who ran the test said if it isn't yellow at 644 hours it is basically indestructible. I also tested several other 2-part resin products with the UV Poly and had the same result. You have a great product. I now feel secure knowing that my resin art, protected with the Poly UV Plus, will be archival and protected for long years. I will be ordering more soon!

Best, Josie (6/2010) Order Acrylic Poly UV plus - cannot be sold in Calif. - and all our other products at our King Cart Storefront. Acrylic poly UV Plus is in the non-epoxy section.

 

 

 Because of the yellowing, it is generally not a good idea to have a poured epoxy table / bar outside in the sun, but if you do - keep it covered with not in use.

pour on bar top epoxy

DIY  "Bar Top" customer example

(more pictures - examples - info below)

 

table top epoxy bio clear 810

 


Section 3 - First Things First - the math


The big shocker to people considering a thick poured on clear table top is the amount of epoxy necessary. Here are some numbers you need to know:


1 gallon of anything applied 1/4 inch thick will only cover slightly less than 6.2 square feet.

1 gallon of anything applied 1 inch thick will only cover 1.6 square feet.

At 1/2 inch thick that gallon of epoxy will only cover about 3.2 square feet.

There 231 cubic inches in a gallon. One square foot is equal to 144 square inches.

"Pour on and over the edge epoxies" generally claim they put down 1/8 inch layers, but it actually less. They claim 16 square feet per gallon, but if it was 1/4 inch thick, coverage would only be 12 square feet. Note that 2 pennies stacked on top of each other equals about 1/8 inch.

(WHY DON'T THE OTHER GUYS SHARE THIS BASIC INFO WITH POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS?)


 

bio clear tabletop bar top epoxy

Note edge all around the table


810 table top bartop epoxy

Note edge all around the table

this is from "James" in the 'user notes' page


"Your web site is delight to scroll through, confusing and funny at the same time, with a lot of info you wouldn't find at any "serious big corporate" web sites. Keep up the good work and good luck..."

Section 4 - First Things First - two part epoxy resins


Epoxies do not do well in direct sunlight (direct UV exposure). They will turn cloudy and yellow, lose their shine and perhaps even chalk. All epoxies, especially white and clear epoxies do this. Most do it rather quickly, within a few days of constant exposure. Some do it very very slowly (weeks instead of days).

 

1) keep the table out of direct sun when not in use (use a cover!)


Epoxies may feel hard and 'cured' within a few hours, but they take a week or more to cure completely. If you make the mistake of putting some paper or a heavy or sharp object on an epoxy surface that is less than several days old, the paper will glue itself to the epoxy and the objects will 'dent' the epoxy.


Epoxies are really just a hard plastic. Mix parts A and B together and a chemical reaction occurs between the two parts. The reaction generates heat and the epoxy gets hard. Many epoxies generate A LOT OF HEAT. So much that the mixture might froth up, melt the container it is in, smoke, and most certainly produce an uneven surface. With epoxies like these you are generally told not to pour out layers more than half an inch or one quarter inch (so that less heat and distortion results due to the lesser amount of epoxy present and the amount of surface area to 'expel the heat).


Most people would like a thick clear epoxy to apply to their table or bar top. Thick, unfortunately has trouble with trapped tiny air bubbles. Mixing and pouring the epoxy introduces lots of bubbles to the mixture. Fortunately most will rise to the surface and pop before the epoxy gets hard and traps them. Heating the poured epoxy with a hair dryer will aid the bubbles rising to the surface and popping. The heat the epoxy generates as it cures (if not too great) will also help the epoxy rise to the surface and pop.


Like most plastics, epoxies will soften with heat. Generally if you place something that is hotter than about 125 degrees F (such as a hot coffee cup) it might soften the epoxy to the point of leaving a dent, ring or depression in the epoxy that will not go away. Keep hot things away from your epoxy surface.


Yes, it is common to build up the thickness by doing a multiple layers of epoxy pours (generally because of the heat release on most epoxies).


"Paul, Finally got my top poured, your product is AWESOME. I was hesitant with all I read about go small first, my top was 8'x2'6"x1/4". I'm the "Go big or go home" guy, this top was my first pour & I feel that your product made it as easy as it could be. I was very surprised at the lack of fumes, I poured in a different location & could have just poured in the store where the counter is going."


 

Section 5 - User Notes part 1 and part 2

 

PRIME / SEAL The Surface

The surface to be coated is often sealed with some other product prior to pouring the epoxy.  This is necessary when pouring over old lumber etc. Also many of the objects to be covered with epoxy need to be sealed to prevent air (and bubbles) from coming out of them. Generally people use a clear polyurethane from the hardware store, or marine spar varnish, or even glue. When sealing old wood, seal with at least 2 coats of sealer (as per customer feedback - one coat may not be enough). Sealing prevents leaks, bubbles, and show possible bad stuff, like grease or oil that will mess up the epoxy pour. It an also glue down objects to be placed in the epoxy. Easier to fix before the epoxy is poured (may not be able to fix after the epoxy is poured).

So... two coats of clear sealer recommended - let dry for several days or longer.

 

WE RECOMMEND YOU 'TEST' YOUR SEALED SURFACE WITH WATER BEFORE APPLYING THE EPOXY. THE WATER WILL TEST FOR LEAKS, LEVELNESS, AND BUBBLES

IF SATISFIED, SPONGE THE WATER OUT - WAIT A FEW DAYS TO DRY COMPLETELY THEN POUR YOUR EPOXY


The epoxy will feel dry and hard overnight, but it takes a week for it to fully cure and harden. Do not place objects on the epoxy before then as they will stick or leave a dent or impression in the still hardening epoxy.

Get everything at the same temperature - epoxy and the all surfaces and keep it that way for a day or so after the pour. Avoid applying near windows etc. where sunlight will change the temperature. Temperature changes (warmer temps) may cause bubbles to form.

Don't try to get the last few drops of epoxy out of your mixing container. The liquid sticking to the sides and corners/edges of the container never get completely mixed. Pour your mixture out of the mixing container but don't keep it draining out for more than 10 seconds or so. Poorly mixed epoxy will always stay tacky or wet, either in certain areas or all over. Even better is to double mix. Mix in one container. Pour into a second container and mix again. Use the double mixed epoxy from the second container on your surface.



Section 6 - What can go wrong

 

WHAT CAN GO WRONG - DIY PROBLEMS WE HEAR ABOUT


1) The epoxy leaks out from the corners FIX seal the edges and corners (using some of the epoxy, varnish, etc.). Test (maybe with water) before your big pour if you are pouring on to a surface with an edge all around it (option 1)/

2) Bubbles in the epoxy - either from mixing too vigorously (you're not making whip cream!) or from the wood/objects you are covering with the epoxy. Sealing the surface prior to the pour will take care of the bubbles from objects in the epoxy. To remove bubbles quickly pass a torch/heat gun over the surface of the epoxy once the bubbles have reached the surface of the epoxy.


3) Stress cracks. On large pours (say over 3 or 4 gallons, or maybe greater than 15 or 16 square feet) - stress cracks can form from all the different temperatures generated. The bigger the pour the thinner each layer of epoxy has to be to 'handle' all the heat. I wish I could be more exact here, but I have no 'real' numbers to offer. I have found that running a fan across the poured epoxy helps to dissipate and even-out the heat generated permitting thicker and larger pours.


4) Ridges and an uneven surface. Just like the stress cracks, this is a result of too much epoxy (too thick) applied at one time. The unevenness is from the heat generated (unevenly) in the pour.

We hope the information provided by these pages will convince you to go for Quality over low end, cheap,  rapidly yellowing, generic epoxy. We are a professional  epoxy  company that wants informed customers and cares about those customer's projects. And yes, we ask for  your business.....

 


THIS PAGE EXPLAINS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT EPOXIES - OPTIONS, ISSUES, WHAT CAN GO WRONG ETC. AFTER READING THIS PAGE  SELECT YOUR OPTION AND VISIT THOSE LINKED PAGES

 

OPTION 1 --  Thick pour epoxy - use for pours over 1/4 inch and with a leak-proof edge all around the project. The most professional, commercial grade bar top and table top system/method --- GOTO OPTION 1

 

OPTION 2 -- Pour a thin epoxy over your surface and let it drip over the side (or brush on semi - thick coats of epoxy) use EPOXY CLEAR TOP RESIN --- GOTO OPTION 2 NOTE: THIS 'CLEAR' EPOXY HAS AN AMBER PART A IN THE CAN - CLEAR WHEN POURED OR BRUSHED

 

OPTION 3 ---  special craft projects use a thicker marine type epoxy (which has more bubbles)  -   examples at Maine Coast Creations web site. - Often used to fill cracks and knot holes in wood bar slabs etc. use BASIC NO BLUSH EPOXY - buy at epoxyusa.com USE TO FILL KNOT HOLES ETC. IN SLABS OF WOOD/BAR TOPS

 

OPTION 4 --  Brush on a solvent thinned epoxy epoxy sealer and primer (use ESP 155) , then top coat with several coats of INDIA SPAR VARNISH.  Note; these two products cannot be sold in California. --- GOTO OPTION 4


Click here for the latest "how to instructions and comments" formatted as a PDF file for easy downloading/printing..



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-- Paul, Thanks for all your advice, tips & moral support concerning my project. It turned out beautiful.  Quality people backing a quality product is the only way to go!

Sincerely, Joe  Laissez les Bon Temps Rouler!!


Date: Mon, 15 July 15:28:52 +0100
From: "Lee" <xx@xxxxxx>
 

Hi Paul

Just to let you know that the epoxy paint arrived today. It was a pleasure doing business with a company that is prepared go the extra yard to sell their product, even for such a small order. Thanks again for all you help and patience --- Lee



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