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EMAIL LINK pauloman555@yahoo.com

(email  to Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.):

I would like to say thank you to Paul for taking the time and chatting with me. I had various questions and he answered all of them. His expertise in the marine world with the capabilities of his epoxy knowledge gave me a good sense of mind. I have a 18' i/o with a delaminated inner skin on the transom his time on the phone and tricks of the trade were a real lifesaver and saved me a lot of mental turmoil. Again:
Thank you Paul.
Sincerely

Scott

non epoxy review/feedback for: ACRYLIC POLY

Feedback from user applying to boat hull. Two coats rolled on with foam roller (may have used brush too for 'tip and roll'). Sanded between coats to remove any roughness. Last coat with for mirror gloss. Thinned the product 30% with xylene. Reported an awesome gloss finish coat. Noted that he could still smell the solvents 24 hours later but perhaps a bit of tackiness, but rock hard after 48 hours.

The solvents in the coating may lift or remove the painted coatings in your mixing rod thus tinting the Acrylic Poly with an undesired color.

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Although urethane coatings are NEVER officially recommended for immersion service, several customers (and myself) have successfully tested it underwater.

_________

Do not use in a dusty setting. In basements etc. dust can settle on the fresh coating within 10-60 seconds creating what looks like tiny bubbles.

.

  non epoxy review/feedback for:  Bio Clear 810 and Acrylic Poly UV Plus (this is the Poly section. More feeder comments on the Bio Clear 810 can be found below under Bio Clear 810. Also, more user comments on the Bio Clear 810 web page bartop2).


Josie Lewis (5/2010) wrote:
Hello: I've read your site with interest. I am an artist using a 2 part clear coat resin, marketed as a tabletop resin. Currently I use EX-74 from Envirotex which claims to have a UV blocker, but in a recent UV test did not perform any better than the cheaper stuff. I make wall pieces that have several layers of resin and average about an inch thick. My work is designed for indoor display and I tell my buyers to keep the pieces out of direct sunlight (which is always desirable for artwork).

I am becoming deeply concerned about the yellowing potential, as you can imagine. It seems from your web site you indicate that some kind of a protective topcoat can be helpful (the Acrylic Poly UV plus?). What would you recommend to have most UV resistance possible for my particular application?

Josie Lewis (6/2010) wrote:
Hi Paul: I recently purchased Bio Clear and Acrylic Poly UV Plus from your company. I have access to a UV chamber which simulates high altitude direct UV exposure. I thought you might be interested in my findings. I used a Masonite panel painted white and then coated with BioClear. On half of the Bio Clear coated panel, I brushed on one coat of UV Poly and put it in the chamber for 644 hours at 50 C (the heat accelerates the exposure). Attached is a picture of the results. The masonite cracked a bit and separated due to a bit of wetness in the wood (unrelated to the resin). The Bio Clear ambered dramatically within about 50 hours. After 644 hours, the UV Poly showed a slight bit of ambering from the original control but it is marginal at worst. The technician who ran the test said if it isn't yellow at 644 hours it is basically indestructible. I also tested several other 2-part resin products with the UV Poly and had the same result. You have a great product. I now feel secure knowing that my resin art, protected with the Poly UV Plus, will be archival and protected for long years. I will be ordering more soon!
Best, Josie (6/2010)

VENDOR COMMENTS:

The original 2 part poly clear we sold was like everyone else's - essentially no UV protection. I got the factory to reformulate using max UV blockers and UV absorbers (there is a difference). Raw material costs went up almost $10 a gallon (guess that is why other folks don't add them). You cannot put UV blockers into epoxy resin systems - it is a chemistry thing.

My sun exposure tests are just trays in the parking lot. I seem to have similar results. I have found for the UV poly (and with other coatings for sealing and waterproofing) two coats, not one, make a huge difference. Suspect you would be even more impressed with 2 coats of the UV poly.

As far as the epoxy goes, the 810 yellows less (or at least much slower) than most or all of the other epoxies. Also, all epoxies take 5-10 days for full cure. Suspect you would find different amounts of yellowing if you had begun your testing with 2 day old 810 epoxy and 2 week old 810 epoxy.

Josie Lewis (6/2010) wrote:

Paul: I'm totally fine with you using my comments! I hope it helps someone. As to your questions about final surface, I definitely have problems with that. Below is my routine for getting a really nice surface (it ain't easy). I have a spray booth, but I have problems getting little flecks of stuff in the resin/poly no matter what precautions I take. (VENDOR COMMENTS: HAVE HAD REPORTS OF THAT HAPPENING MINUTES AFTER ROLLING OR BRUSHING - SUSPECT DUST IN THE AIR) The resin is easier than the poly, which you are right in saying is super tricky. Because I am very concerned about yellowing, I've figured out a way to make the poly work...

Multiple coats of two part resin (eventually 1-4 inches thick) (this is The Art) (see www.josielewis.com)

After final coat of resin, I allow the resin to cure for a couple of weeks

I rough up the surface with 100 grit paper

I brush on two thick coats of Poly UV (thin, multiple coats were cracking. You mentioned earlier you thought thin coats would be harder. I haven't noticed any difference)

I let that rest for a week or so

I sand down the Poly UV with 1000 grit paper (or slightly rougher if there's dirt/hair, etc.)

Then I spray it with a auto clear coat (from a can, I don't have professional spray equipment)

THEN, I sand it progressively with 600-1000 grit, then buff it with a professional random orbital buffer with a cutting compound and then a polishing compound. I basically do the same thing that they will do with a car to get it nice and shiny. (BTW I use a spray booth for the wet work, and my garage for the sanding, and I wear a OSHA ventilation mask for everything--got to be careful with this stuff.)

VENDOR COMMENTS:

The Acrylic Poly UV Plus is very high solvent, (like auto clear coat). It works best with multi thin coats. Thick applications will result in solvent trapping below the surface - keeping it

soft'. That said, it is a soft coating. It likes to go over non-porous surfaces, typically a new/fresh epoxy base coat.

non epoxy review/feedback for: ALUTHANE

Feedback for application to boat hull has its own page www.epoxyproducts.com/aluthane.html

epoxy review/feedback for:  BASIC NO BLUSH (tm) MARINE EPOXY

if you are using Basic No Blush marine epoxy or our competitors' products and plan to paint over the epoxy with oil based enamel paint - read this and this (why won't my paint dry? - Paint options for coating epoxy)

Paul, Just thought you might get a chuckle out of this mistake of  mine.  I was filing up a rotten bulkhead with epoxy and it leaked out, ran down the shower wall and down then shower drain. This is the result of the epoxy setting up in the drain pipe. Doug

Customer feedback and comments on Basic No Blush marine epoxy are so many, they have their own web page - CLICK HERE for basic no blush marine epoxy reviews.

keywords= epoxy reviews

BIO CLEAR 810 (now has its own web page! see BOTH GOOD AND BAD link below)

Bio Clear 810 and Acrylic Poly UV Plus (this is the Poly section. More feeder comments on the Bio Clear 810 with the Acrylic Poly UV top coat can be found above see -- Bio Clear /Acrylic . Also, more user comments on the Bio Clear 810 web page bartop2).

epoxy review/feedback for: COAL TAR EPOXY (no longer available)

Daniel Skira -- Skira Yacht Design wrote (5/2010):

I just received my two quart of coal tar epoxy I ordered. What I really like is the literature and all the information you put with the package. It is very useful. I used normal coal tar until now, and look forward to try your product.

VENDOR COMMENTS:

Hi Daniel  Thanks for the kind words. Yes, I too like the coal tar epoxy - rolls on nicely. But coal tar epoxies have other issues (see www.epoxyproducts.com/coaltar.html - soft/flexible, may not be able to paint over especially if old and sun weathered, etc.) and I often recommend cm 15 epoxy as an alternative to the coal tar.

If you notice a difference with our coal tar epoxy it would be because of the high end epoxy part of the coal tar epoxy we use. Most coal tar epoxies have a reputation for using very low end epoxy.


Daniel Skira -- Skira Yacht Design wrote (5/2010):

Paul,  The one to one mix is absolutely the way to go. Fantastically easy. The product is very good, goes like a charm on wood, dry nicely without any shrinkage. I built the boat outside, at 50F no problem even we had light rain, no problems.

I really like your coal tar epoxy. A real time saver compared to the classic one. The quality of the coal tar is the same as the high end one component I used for almost 30 years. But yours dries! No need to wait one month anymore! No need to boil it either like the other one, to have a good penetration. Your coal tar epoxy seams to have a very good penetration. I even used on some larges holes on the keel, and it worked like a charm. Impossible to do the same with the non-epoxy one. I will be sending another order. I am hooked on yours! I will probably paint the underwater part of the hull with your coal tar epoxy. Many thanks.


Daniel Skira -- Skira Yacht Design wrote (5/2010):

Hi Paul  Just painted with regular oil based painting on top of your coal tar epoxy without any preparation. Dry neat, and seems to bond. I sanded two coats of coal tar epoxy with a belt sander and 36 grit belt, but with a light handling of the machine. Perfect, no problems. Painted on top with regular oil based paint. No problem.

So my underwater hull will be painted with your coal tar epoxy. Then I will apply a coat of antifouling. Not the sides since I know the problem of epoxy and the sunshine. The elongation of you coal tar is a perfect match for my wooden hull.
All my best. - > Daniel


Daniel Skira -- Skira Yacht Design wrote (5/2010):

Hi Paul  After curing for 7 days, the coal tar epoxy I applied to a steel bar was even not touched. I used a heavy hammer to bend the steel bar. The secret is let it cure at least 7 days and it is hard and flexible. It is the greatest coal tar epoxy I ever tried. You can post my trial on your website. This an amazing product. But I repeat, the curing time is mandatory. Sometime people think epoxy is immediate, they are wrong. I will come for more, the hull will be primed underwater with your coal tar epoxy.
All my best  Daniel

Hello Paul,

I own a 1986 Hunter Legend 40 sailboat. I bought the boat in the fall of 2004 and had the hull below the waterline was sandblasted in the spring of 2005. The hull was then coated by the boat yard with a VC-Tar coal tar epoxy at great expense. by the fall of 2005, barely 5 months later, the hull started showing signs of osmosis again below the waterline. This was likely due to the very thin coat of coal tar applied by the boat yard.

In the spring of 2006 I proceeded to sand off the VC-Tar from the entire hull and applied five coats your coal tar expoxy. Once dry, I applied a hard antifouling paint. The coal tar has held up beautifully and is still in good condition after 5 years. The osmosis has not resurfaced, indicating that the coal tar is doing its job as a barrier coat.

My only dissapointment is that the curing time can be lengthy and if you apply antifouling paint over the coal tar before it is fully cured, the paint will craze. That said, I have since sanded the antifouling paint off and subsequent paint coatings hold up well on the rougher surface.

Regards, Fulvio

epoxy review/feedback for: ESP 155

Reports of Premium No Blush epoxy fisheyeing when applied over ESP 155 - see fisheye.html .

Reports of alkyd enamel drying issues when applied over ESP 155 - see enamel.html .

This product is a Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. best selling, favorite product. Visit our FAVORITES - 7 EPOXIES THAT WILL FIX ANYTHING  web page at: epoxyproducts.com/favorites4u.html View other popular one-of-a-kind products.

non epoxy review/feedback for: INDIA SPAR VARNISH

SPAR VARNISHES OVER EPOXY - over the years I have seen/heard/read accounts of traditional varnishes refusing to dry or drying very slowly over a base of epoxy. Varnishes are regularly applied over epoxy covered kayaks and canoes all the time. All different brands of epoxy and all different brands of oil based varnishes. Problems only seem to happen once every few hundred times. The general conclusion is an incompatible relationship between that epoxy and that varnish. Sounds good, but that epoxy and that varnish have been used together for years without problems.

I have no way to proof this, but I suspect it comes from not carefully mixing the varnish. Open a can of varnish and it looks 'ready to go' and I suspect that most of the time it is. But varnish is made of resins and solvents and perhaps additives. Perhaps they 'settle out' a little bit, I don't really know. I suggest you SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY mix the varnish with a tongue depressor/stick.

epoxy review/feedback for: INDUSTRIAL FLOOR EPOXY

A few tips for novices from an April 2013 customer:

1) Patch all cracks and holes; the industrial epoxy paint will pull chunks of concrete out of the holes and dump them on surface where they look terrible.

2) Use an angle grinder with a rosin masonry grinding blade (not a diamond blade) to grind down surface chunks of concrete and/or bubbles between coats. You don't need to rent a floor buffer with a screening pad to do this, and trying to do this with sandpaper is hopeless. I did 700 sq ft pretty quickly with a 7" grinder without really hurting the $5 blade. You need to move super-fast or you'll go through the floor.

3) get a super-heavy duty roller frame if possible. I destroyed 2 of the "high quality" ones at home depot -- the collars aren't designed to pull the roller with a lot of force, and the roller, when saturated with epoxy, sticks pretty hard to the floor

4) Keep a backup roller frame. As I mentioned, I broke 2 good ones and 1 cheap one in three painting sessions.

5) I'm not really sure how to clean the bucket between coats. Sometimes the epoxy ejects in a giant chunk, sometimes it fractures, making a mess, and sometimes the bucket breaks.

6) Remove masking tape ASAP or else you'll never remove it. Prop doors open so you don't have to touch them.

7) Have an accurate measuring system and use a scraper to get the epoxy part a out of the measuring cup. I used the 1 qt clear plastic soup containers from a restaurant (I bought a couple), but she found it hard to measure a full quart and, more importantly, to measure 1/2 qt. If I were doing it again, I'd try to get a slightly larger container that could hold more than 1 qt so that I could measure more accurately. Also, the measurements don't help if 20% of your quart of epoxy is still sitting in the measuring cup (or paint can) because it stuck to the side.

8) I'd consider using a 1 gallon drill-operated paint stirrer. The 5 gallon one was so tall that it was nearly impossible to put the drill down between batches without sliming the floor or knocking our trash can over. We eventually used one of the bags that the paint cans in to go over the head of the drill, and keep its contents off the floor, but it wasn't ideal.

9) This might be obvious, but paint the ceiling and walls before you start on the floor.

epoxy review/feedback for: LOW V

Quick combo data - tech doc for LOW V EPOXY Click Here

One user reports a 'sanding window' at about 6 - 12 hours where the Low V is hard enough to sand without gumming up the sandpaper, but soft enough to 'sand' several time faster than when the epoxy is a lot harder, such as a day or two or three later.

(note: also had a user that decided adding the fumed silica thickener was really necessary to keep the Low V epoxy from running. Saw a big difference between using it and not using it. Note too that our EZ Thick, thickener will stir into the epoxy much easier than the fumed silica, but that fumed siica has been the favorite thickener of epoxy for many many years. Fumed silica is often called by one of its largest brand names Cab-o-sil (tm)).

This product is a Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. best selling, favorite product. Visit our FAVORITES - 7 EPOXIES THAT WILL FIX ANYTHING  web page at: epoxyproducts.com/favorites4u.html View other popular one-of-a-kind products.

epoxy review/feedback for: LOW V With Copper Powder

(SEE WWW.EPOXYPRODUCTS.COM/COPPER4U.HTML)

(SEE WWW.EVERYTHING-EPOXY.INFO/A-COPPEREPOXY.HTML)

due to changing federal regulations we no longer sell copper powder 10/16

Quick combo data - tech doc for COPPER POWDER Click Here

Hi Paul:

... was finally ready to begin coating the hull with the Low V late Sunday afternoon.
And, after looking around both in my town and Port zzzzzz, was unable to locate the Xylene thinner, so just went with the low V, but tried to add some fumed silica. However, we had wind and was difficult to get this in with the epoxy before it "Blew away!"

(note: also had a user that decided adding the fumed silica thickener was really necessary to keep the Low V epoxy from running. Saw a big difference between using it and not using it. Note too that our EZ Thick, thickener will stir into the epoxy much easier than the fumed silica, but that fumed siica has been the favorite thickener of epoxy for many many years. Fumed silica is often called by one of its largest brand names Cab-o-sil (tm)).

Another problem was that I poured the Low V and curing agent into a roller tray and wind could get at this perhaps more easily than a bucket. I had thought the 9" paint pad would work well, but soon had the epoxy dripping off this pad and all over the place. Seemed especially bad in areas that I had to "Look up," like directly under the boat. Ours is a catamaran and has much surface area similar to a ceiling. The Low V just would load up in the pad and any pressure would result in the stuff coming off the pad and onto the handle, dripping, etc. This was more of a mess than I could deal with, so just got rid of the pads, went with a 3" brush. Could control things a whole lot better with the brush. We did get many runs, but generally were able to "Go back" over these before things got really set up. We just got one coat of low V on the hull, then cleaned up and made the drive back home. So, maybe this was just me, but I do not think the paint pad (Rubbermaid) works well with the Low V.

(for watery thin epoxies, like the Low V, use a brush, not a roller)

So, what did I learn:1. Not to mix quite as large of quantity as I did. I mixed 32oz. of low V with 16 oz. of curing agent for a total of approximately 48 ozs. Both wife and myself had this quantity in a roller pan. Ended up throwing some out as could not use.

(note: temp was about 80 degrees F)

2. The paint pad is not the tool to use with the Low V. For us, the brush worked a whole lot better.

3. Wear a hat, got some of the mixture in hair, and today it's a mess! Has anyone commented on the difficulty of using a hair brush when your hair is part cured epoxy??

4. If adding the silica, and probable also goes for the copper powder, dump everything into a bucket and get some mixing sticks (paddles first). I did not have any good tool for mixing.

....... Just happy to pass along the information based upon our experience. I guess I would just preference remarks with "This worked for us" based upon temperature and humidity. But we pretty much stuck with those ratios and amounts, and with two people brushing could use the material in the time interval outlined. As for coverage of the copper epoxy mixture, we calculate approximately 162 sq. ft. with both tunnels (catamaran hulls) from the area masked off and below. We were able to complete this hull with 3 (three) batches of the copper / epoxy consisting of the 15 oz. low V / 7 oz. curing agent/ and
5-6 oz. of the copper powder. In fact we had a little left over and "Started around" again after completing the second tunnel. Actually, we cut the last batch of Copper Powder down just a tad to 14 oz. low V, hair
over 6 oz. of curing agent and 5.5 oz. of copper powder. So, for the entire hull we used 64 oz. of epoxy + curing agent and 17 ozs. of copper powder.

(note: this is a lot better coverage than we quote. The additon of the solvent greatly increases coverage but puts on a thinner coat. You can add enough copper to create copper epoxy putty. Note that a gallon of anything spread out at 1/4 inch thick only covers 6.2 square feet. Goal is to get as much copper on as possible but still be able to apply it and not have roller marks, etc.)

Guess I'd mention one other thing, and that is the brushing technique. At first, I was concerned (especially with the hot weather) with getting on the copper epoxy within a time period before it set up. So, I fell back to a time when I did much painting, and learned to "Put it on" fairly quickly. I would just dip the brush into the copper mixture to the bottom of the bucket and depth starting out was maybe a little over one inch (1"). Could use this for a while, but then the brush would load up and start oozing out, especially when doing the very bottom. Well, I didn't need be that worried. I don't think we had anything set up on us inside of 30 minutes. I then altered technique to "Wipe" one side of the brush on the top of the paint bucket and this kept things in control, but still allowed a fairly rapid work rate. Just a little more dipping into the
bucket.

We're not completed with this project, will be going back to work on boat this weekend. Will email you more as project nears completion. But, my thanks for getting us through this. We had many people stop by and comment, "Oh, can see you're having fun now!" I explained that I really couldn't talk now, as this stuff sets up and need concentrate on what we're doing. But did learn to relax a little and at least say something.

Ken

I bought this copper powder from you in 2003 while in New Zealand and put it on my 45' Trimaran with W@@t Epoxy. Will be in NZ this October and plan to do it again as it has worked quit well. Also put it on my AB dingy bottom. --

John 2013

Phil Napoli has coated the bottom of his 26 ft Bayliner Powerboat with our copper powder and Low V epoxy. He developed the following 'blend' which he found to be ideal for applying by paint pad.

Individual batch sizes of 24 oz of epoxy, 5/8 pound of copper, and 3 oz of xylene sovlent.

(note: he thinks it took about 1 gal of the mix to paint his bottom - about as much as he uses with regular bottom paint. He also said that without the solvent the blend was thick like old fashion bottom paint, with the solvent added it was more like regular paint. Application was by paint pad (he said brushing left marks). Because he thinned the epoxy down, total mil thickness was low. He might have considered a coat of our CM 15 epoxy primer or just the Low V without the copper as an initial coat if we wanted more mil thickness on his hull).

Jim - Another user in Texas:

Rolls on the copper and epoxy unthinned and then uses a squeegee over it to stop drips, etc. Comes back within a few hours for a second coat, rolled on only.

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Subject: Re: EPOXY NEWS:FALL NEWSLETTER
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:57:37 -0400
From: Ebb B <eb..........@hotmail.com>
To: Paul Oman <pauloman555@yahoo.com>
Organization: Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.


Have had great success with Low V and copper powder. Couldn't have done it without customer input on your pages. Yet I did feel I was pretty much on my own.

Small boat worked out to many coats, each coat getting more copper added in. Last and fifth coat had about 30% copper, didn't have to use xylene, rolling it on with 1/4" nap rollers from Home D. 1/4" just right in this application - had skips in the reverse curves with skimpier nap. The result cause a big stir in the yard and dozens of visits, questions and comments. Spectacular! Now, I'm famous! Because of my tentative additions of copper, I have a boss barrier coat but not very thick.

Because of the gorgeous finish, many fairing flaws showed up. And circumstances dictate that the five coats couldn't go on one after the other. There doesn't seem to be a real TAC stage where the next coat would go on optimally. Nothing in your spec sheet said anything about recoat times or surface prep. (I may have missed it.) So I felt ok with a more casual recoat non schedule. I just mixed in micro balloons to the copper mix for a fairing putty - and that has worked out great.

Big discovery was that the finish will sand dry if the coating has cured well. I wasted 'paper' (I use sanding belt material) by not waiting because miniature disks would build up on the grit. Even so you have to go lightly with the pressure - hand sanding is the way to go, but it's relatively easy in day or two spaces with 80 grit. You'll get coverage over 40 grit.

Next day will find the surface shiny and tight, showing flaws in the surface. Pin holes are a distinct problem (we're doing vertical and overhead surfaces) and should get taken care of before the copper coating begins. I believe even more copper can be mixed in to the Low V, along with small amounts of solvent. But I never got around to 'experimenting' - I just didn't want to deal with a failure or a screwed up mix. Other skipper's input is very important.

I'll put the boat in with just a newly scuffed surface and keep a log on what happens to it. We'll see if the mild dimpled roller surface is a maintenance problem viz scum and weed attachment.

I believe you get runs and curtains on vertical surfaces where you haven't rolled it out. I managed a few. Most folks will be trying to get a thick coat on obviously. But I don't think the copper powder will 'fall out' of the Low V because as you say it weighs about the same. I had rotten luck in the past trying to make up my own fairing compound with your stuff. Sure not knocking it - it's a matter of time and patience - the window is often pretty tight. Actually I would Rather make up my own formulas.

Low V has a short window after mixing. Can't imagine brushing the copper mix on because of the time constraint. IMHO it has to be rolled out with a fat 9 inch roller. Maybe it could be tipped by a second person to erase the stipple, I didn't even try, I was mesmerized with the ease of rolling. I mixed up enough for one side of the mono-hull at a time. On a hot day, between seventy and eighty, I'd be done just as it was getting really sticky.

Between sixty and seventy degrees it was a piece of cake - in fact there is plenty of time for coffee with it! Not quite sure what the square surface is, say, a hundred a side, and the ballet around the jack stands, keel blocks, piles of stuff, etc. Did 16oz to 8oz, adding 10oz by measure of fluffed up c. powder. I am sure you can get more in and a good rolling job. More in, less sag, thicker coat. Doubtful you'll get 60% that CPoxy says is in theirs. I ran into guys on the net who said it was like putty and had a hell of a time getting it on.

--------------

Another semi-professional user that has done a number of boats reports that you need to sand the freshly applied epoxy/copper to get it to work (and to remove the epoxy covering the top layer of the copper). This will ruin the pretty uniform copper penny look of the finish. The user says that look returns when the boat is sitting in the water (not sure about this - sounds a bit strange to me!).

----------------------

6/05

May I thank you for your pricing. The copper epoxy costs about as much as
normal good quality paint.

I read all of your customer comments and they were helpful. I did not thin
the product as it seemed of good consistency using about 8 oz. of copper to
24 oz of epoxy mix. (fluid measure) I had enough working time to put on 3
mixes with the same 3/8 inch nap roller and tip it out with a brush. It
leveled well with few runs. I had one area that I did not clean well enough
and it fisheyed from the dust on the surface. I sanded this area and made a
paste using the copper powder and some of the filler. I applied this with a
plastic applicator and it filled and smoothed the area well. This only
needed light sanding. I then wet-sanded the bottom with 280 then 320 paper
and launched. I will report on how it works in heavy fouling conditions.

Thanks

Joe

Giving my sailboat a fresh coat of the Low V / copper powder bottom paint. I was very pleased with the results from the first application 3 years ago. --- John M. - comment line from online order

R.O. emailed Progressive Epoxy Polymers (12/20/09)
Hi,
I have been researching different options for a spring bottom painting and have come across a product advertised in XXXXXXXX Magazine. It is a two part, water born epoxy with spherical copper power for loading the paint prior to application. It is Copper Coat Anti-Fouling Paint, has EPA approval for use as a bottom paint and, according to their website ( www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com) has 2 kg of copper powder per liter of paint. This translates to about 16 pounds per gallon. Have you seen this product and how difficult would it be to load one of your paints with this level of copper?
Thanks in advance. -- R.O.


Hi R.O.

Two things up front: we don't sell copper - epoxy bottom paint. We sell lots of different epoxies and we also sell a very fine copper powder (and other metal powders and epoxy thickeners/fillers). So all we can do is sell you the copper powder for you to blend, mix etc. with whatever you want. I just finished adding it to a water based acrylic to paint the roof of a birdhouse.

Secondly, I checked the website you listed (lots more on that later) - their product is not water based, but rather 'ordinary' 2 part epoxy. Not sure where you got the idea it is waterbased. From my experience, 98% of water based epoxies are only for use on floors.

The product/site you list is misleading. It is a simple basic epoxy with copper added (no problem with that) but then the marketing/sales folks got a hold of it. Lots of missing information and misleading statements. The goal isn't informed customers but rather to separate the customer from his money....

You cannot put 16 pounds of copper into a gallon of epoxy (note: copper powder - copper and air - weight about 1 pound per pint) - at about 6 - 8 pounds per gallon you start making copper putty. You cannot make a copper based coating with that much copper and they don't either. Here comes some of the misleading stuff: their sites claims 2 kg per liter of RESIN. Epoxies are 2 part products, resin and curing agent. Rather oddly on their site they don't tell you the ratio of resin to curing agent but a picture suggests it might be 1 to 1 - thus thinning the resin by half ( or worse).

Their MSDS is dated 2002 (considered out of date and invalid if over 5 years old) shows that the chemicals in the resin account for 54%-65% of the resin weight - so the other 35%-45% is the copper. That is about 3-4 pounds of copper per gallon of resin (not the blend of resin and curing agent you actually work with).

Normally a gallon of mixed epoxy has a coverage rate of about 100-200 sf per gallon. The less coverage the thicker the coating, but drips and sags become a real issue - often better to apply 2 thin coats. Anyway, I calculated their coverage rate and found it to be about 80 sf per gallon. So, it is a pretty thick product - we don't know how thick or thin the epoxy was to start with before the copper was added, but still at 80 sf per gallon, it suggests enough copper was added to make it quite thick.

They also do not mention price, so I have no idea what they want for the product but giving general retail pricing, they probably have a gallon of epoxy at about $70-$90 per gallon and perhaps $40 worth of copper. So, about $110 per gallon would be an expected price that still leaves the vendor making lots of profit.

So, bottom line --- I'm sure it is a functional mix of copper and epoxy worked out by someone who knows what is going on. However, their web site is not being very honest and open with you. It is your call if you want to do try their product.

paul oman

What can go wrong

The mostly likely problem is adhesion failure of the coating to the hull down the line. This rarely happens, or at least we don't often hear of it. There are some thoughts and suggestions.

Nearly all of the epoxies are solvent free or very low solvent levels. The bonding is nearly always strictly a surface bond only. That means the epoxy sticks only to what in on the surface of the hull. It should be pure, clean fiberglass. I think this is not always the case. Sanding the hull grinds fiberglass sanding dust into the hull. I doubt wiping with a hose and or rag removes the ground in dust. Then there is dust from the boatyard that settles on the hull. Washing down the hull with soap could leave a soap film. Old weathered fiberglass could be sort of a weak and crumbling surface. It probably takes a good pressure washing to 'blast' off a lot of this surface contamination.

Another option is a primer. Usually just a solvent thinned epoxy base/primer coat. It could be the same epoxy you're using as the barrier coat, or a cheaper epoxy thinned with solvent. The solvents help the coating soak into the hull a little bit, improving adhesion of that coat. The topcoat of 'regular' epoxy now has a good, fresh, well bonded base coat of primer epoxy to bond to.

Finally I have heard of hull flexing being responsible for epoxy peeling. Epoxies are basically hard and brittle and if the hull flexs a lot something has to give, often it is the epoxy bond that fails..... This one I've only come across once.....

A third-party reseach article on and about copper boat bottoms. Very informative and interesting, thanks to one of our customers for passing along the link - customer reports 7/07 this site/link no longer online - http://www.copper.org/innovations/2003/Nov2003/Cu_hull_sheathing_gg.htm

epoxy review/feedback for: NSP 120 - SEE WATER GARD 300

epoxy review/feedback for: PREMIUM NO BLUSH

Reports of Premium No Blush epoxy fisheyeing when applied over ESP 155 - see fisheye.html .

Premium No Blush used for "perfect finish' on commercial (super high end) wooden spear guns

The smoother the finish on a spear gun the less prone it is to scratches since its subjected to harsh conditions such as many hours per day underwater, fighting fish around reefs, slipping on board boats, friction between spear and spear gun track....etc.
Any small lumps will easily scratch...so a smooth finish is required.

Coating spear guns with epoxy is essential primarily for water protection (specially if wood other than Teak is used...Teak has a high oil content....natural water repellent), secondary is esthetics.
Protection coating is the easy part....just making sure every square inch of the wood surface is coated with at least 2 layers is enough.

Coating for a slick finish is the hard part specially with using a brush.
Surface preparation prior to coating is EVERYTHING.
I go for 5 to 6 coats

1- Sand wood surface with 180 grit and don’t touch the surface with your bare hands after sanding.....if you did by mistake....dip a microfiber cloth with acetone and go over the whole surface in 1 stroke covering the surface properly....leave to dry for 15 minutes even if it looks dry before that.

2- Apply 2 thin coats....about 6-12 hours apart....I find the less time between coats the better as long as the second coat is applied while the first coat is tacky but does not come on your finger when you touch it....but not too tacky.
Here the way you brush is important...after dipping the brush in epoxy, do not start brushing where you last ended but rather start brushing in the middle of the area to be coated and work your way to the area you last finished and overlap it for a uniform surface level.

Before going to the next surface to be coated, make 2-3 one directional brush strokes starting from the very first area(s) coated towards the next surface to be coated.
This ensures uniformity and linking each coated area....here I call it “air brushing” as the brush is applied very lightly.....barely touching the surface as you do not want to remove the epoxy rather spread any unseen minor lumps that may have formed.

Applying too much epoxy and it will run....too little and you get brush marks....with some practice you’ll soon determine the correct amount of epoxy to get a smooth surface.
Proper lighting is required to visually see the surface level and to help remove any brush hairs.

3- Leave to dry 24 hrs.

4- Wet sanding is the name of the game...dry sanding epoxy will fill any sanding paper in no time making it unusable and will never render the same sanding quality as wet sanding.
Use 220 grit sanding paper under running water...I like to fold the sanding paper in 2 for a more rigged hold.....sand in the direction of the grain until you reach a very smooth surface...don’t worry about removing epoxy and exposing the wood...the main point is to reach a smooth surface for the next coat.
Here the probability for parts of the wood exposing is high since you only have 2 coats......as you build up more layers....the less likely the wood exposure......again....for a super finish you need to start coating on a super smooth surface.

Using higher grit paper than 220 and the chances of the epoxy forming “fisheyes”...i.e., not adhering properly to surface is increased....using less than 220 grit and its an overkill which will remove unnecessary epoxy from surface.

5- Wash surface thoroughly with running water and leave to dry completely....I always run a microfiber cloth with acetone over the dry surface just to make sure the surface has not been contaminated by mistake. Preferably 30 minutes before I start brushing.

6- For the 3rd & 4th coat (which will be done in 6-12 hrs. apart) you need to be extra careful while brushing...your project is starting to see the light...actually the 3rd coat will give you a good indication how your finished product will look like when done....let’s say around 90%.
The amount of epoxy the 3rd coat can handle will be slightly more than the 4th coat....so make sure you apply less epoxy for the 4th coat or it might start dripping.

7- Sometimes 4 coats are enough....really a matter of personal preference....I go for 5-6 coats for that extra deep shine (5th & 6th coats are applied in the same manner as 3rd & 4th coat)

8- Leave to dry for at least a week before handling the coated wood.

9- OPTIONAL: For very high gloss....you have to go with polishing so get yourself an orbital polisher and some good car polishing compound.

10- To prepare the surface for polishing (say you’ve reached 5 coats)...start wet sanding with 600 grit paper then work your way with 1000 grit and end with 1500 grit...make sure the at the 600 grit level you remove any lumps and render the surface as smooth as possible.....1000 & 1500 grit will only remove scratches made by the 600 grit but will not remove any lumps.

Best Regards,

 

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Best Regards,

Ih - Egypt - Custom Spear Gun manufacturer

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 continued from above:

 

I believe foam brushes would be best used for flat surfaces....foam brushes have straight edges...won’t work around any curves...you’re bound to miss some spots.

Brushes take the contour of any shape.... you can use a foam brush to remove excess epoxy AFTER you’ve used a brush...and not vice versa.

The trick is to form very thin layers of epoxy for a smooth finish...takes more time but saves some epoxy and sanding time PLUS you’re guaranteed a stronger bond between layers as long as you brush each coat within 24 hrs max.

After 30 minutes, a quality foam brush must be thrown away...don't try to use it after this or you’ll end up having tiny pieces of shredded foam on your stock.

 

I believe foam brushes would be best used for flat surfaces....foam brushes have straight edges...won’t work around any curves...you’re bound to miss some spots.

Brushes take the contour of any shape.... you can use a foam brush to remove excess epoxy AFTER you’ve used a brush...and not vice versa.

The trick is to form very thin layers of epoxy for a smooth finish...takes more time but saves some epoxy and sanding time PLUS you’re guaranteed a stronger bond between layers as long as you brush each coat within 24 hrs max.

After 30 minutes, a quality foam brush must be thrown away...don't try to use it after this or you’ll end up having tiny pieces of shredded foam on your stock.

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"This is an electric 12 string guitar, styled after the famous Fender Stratocaster. It was stained with regular commercial kona stain, then sealed with 5 ounces of Premium No Blush, thinned slightly with 1 ounce of acetone mixed into the base before adding the curing agent. The first coat was wiped on with microfiber cloth. A second coat was done 24 hours later with a similar mixture, but with the microfiber cloth already wet with acetone. The result was rock hard and glass smooth. It was covered with two coats of wipe-on polyurethane, and polished with carnuba wax. I did this because I was so pleased with the kona stain that I wanted something special to help protect it. Paul's No Blush was the right choice, just as I expected it would be."

 

epoxy review/feedback for: WATER GARD 300

More user comments on this product being used as a marine barrier coat at: www.epoxyproducts.com/barrier4u.html

This product is a Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. best selling, favorite product. Visit our FAVORITES - 7 EPOXIES THAT WILL FIX ANYTHING  web page at: epoxyproducts.com/favorites4u.html View other popular one-of-a-kind products.

Subject: Re: EPOXY NEWS:FALL NEWSLETTER
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:57:37 -0400
From: Ebb B <eb..........@hotmail.com>
To: Paul Oman <pauloman555@yahoo.com>
Organization: Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.


I've applied your Water Gard 300/NSP 120 white tank coating to the exterior below waterline part of my 26' Pearson Ariel. I originally got the kit for built-in water tanks, but it worked ok as the prime barrier.

Unable to really experiment I did use xylene to loosen the mix after the first coat tore the rollers apart. (note: epoxies are sticky' and will sometimes damage cheap rollers - there are special rollers for epoxies and/or adhesives). The sanding was time consuming - but easy. I'm adamant about 100% solids epoxies....

Just did the lid this afternoon to the belly tank (the underside of the cabin sole, actually) so I mixed a small amount: 4oz to 2oz. Then added ½ oz xylene (going against the grain!) But this mix brushes out like melted butter on a Thanksgiving turkey. Contrary of what I said earlier (which was that the product cannot be brushed on - rolled, yes. Had no roller tear out on the third and last bottom coat because of the added thinner but was still unable to use a brush).

Tried out a mini roller I have in mind for the tank itself, an epoxy rated skinny 4.5" 'mohair blend' by Wooster. Nice!

- - - - - - - -

Note how it bonded to the underwater painted surface - it is the concrete, not the epoxy that is the issue here.

In saltwater marine environments 'micro-electric fields' can be present that will reject the epoxy (see https://epoxyproducts.com/charge4u.html)

these bilge epoxy notes are repeated at: https://epoxyproducts.com/bilge_paint.html

This product is a Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. best selling, favorite product. Visit our FAVORITES - 7 EPOXIES THAT WILL FIX ANYTHING  web page at: epoxyproducts.com/favorites4u.html View other popular one-of-a-kind products.

epoxy review/feedback for: WET DRY 700 - SEE WWW.EPOXYPRODUCTS.COM/REPAIR FOR BOAT RELATED CASE STUDIES.

Quick combo data - tech doc for WET DRY 700 EPOXY  Click Here

I've never written a review of an internet company, but I have to about epoxyUSA.com / epoxyproducts.com mainly because of the outstanding customer service they gave me.

It started as normal, I searched the web looking for an epoxy to fix an old fiberglass over concrete pool. After hours looking I came across epoxyUSA.com / epoxyproducts.com and they had what I was looking for. I ordered it and it was to get here by Tuesday of the next week, since it was coming from the east to west coast.

Tuesday came without a delivery, I emailed them (pauloman555@yahoo.com) and they took it from there, working with UPS. Good thing too, because UPS did not respond to any of my requests in the matter.

EpoxyUSA.com / epoxyproducts.com, knowing I was desperately in need of the epoxy had sent me two more gallons for replacement.

We found the original order at the neighbors house (they don't use their front door). I used the epoxy (Wet Dry 700) and was amazed at how good it  was, so I bought the two extra kits and I'm sure I will get good use out of them.

EpoxyUSA.com / epoxyproducts.com is the only place I will buy epoxy from.

Thanks Frank 11/2011

Jeff (1/2013)

I cannot believe how incredible this Wet Dry 700 is. It's revolutionary. The original repair to my storm shelter would have lasted years if the shelter would just stop shifting around in the ground. DON'T STOP SELLING THIS STUFF.

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